Can AI replace therapy? What Asian Australians need to know about digital mental health

🎁 Free Resource: Download "AI vs Therapy: What's the difference" to deepen your learning → HERE

In this mid-season episode of the Asian Mental Health Podcast, Asami and Marcus share candid stories about therapy. From messy counselling rooms at uni to the awkwardness of "breaking up" with a therapist. Along the way, they explore how to know when therapy is working, whether AI can ever provide the same support as a human relationship, and what Asian Australians should look for when seeking mental health support.

You'll hear about: 

✅ Red flags to watch for when choosing a psychologist or counsellor in Australia 

✅ How to know if therapy is actually working for you 

✅ Navigating Medicare mental health plans and switching therapists 

✅ The rise of AI mental health tools and their limitations 

✅ Why therapeutic rapport matters more than the latest technology

✅ Cultural considerations for Asian Australians seeking therapy

Watch the episode below or find us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts!

💡 Episode Highlights:

• Personal experiences of therapy that felt unhelpful, including cultural stereotyping and lack of structure
• Red flags to notice in a therapist, and why containment is just as important as asking questions
• The realities of navigating Australia's mental health system: Medicare sessions, switching providers, and the admin that makes therapy feel clunky
• How AI is being used for companionship, journaling, and quick fixes - and why it can never replace therapeutic rapport
• Risks of using AI for mental health, from cultural bias to reinforcing unhelpful thinking or even fuelling paranoia
• What "progress" in therapy really feels like: sometimes weeks later, when you realise you're calmer, more present, or laughing again
• Finding culturally competent mental health practitioners who understand Asian Australian experiences

🧠 Key Takeaways: 

[00:10:30] "Sometimes we just want to share our thoughts and frustrations quickly, and AI feels easier than calling someone." – Asami

[00:22:00] "Obviously, when I read this, it's like Google… I could have just searched 'how to deal with uni stress.' It doesn't feel personalised." – Marcus

[00:24:15] "Complaining to your AI is not therapy. It might feel like journaling, but it isn't the same as therapeutic change." – Asami

[00:28:40] "One danger with using AI is that it can leave room for psychosis or delusional thinking, especially when it keeps reaffirming you without question." – Marcus

[00:36:20] "Containment is really important in therapy — not just opening boxes, but closing them safely so you don't leave feeling raw or overwhelmed." – Asami

[00:39:50] "Good therapy is when someone helps you land on one thing early in the session and actually works with you. That's not what AI can do." – Marcus

[00:46:10] "Sometimes the signs that therapy is working are small — like realising you're calmer with your family, or hearing yourself laugh again." – Asami

Why this matters: Many Asian Australians wonder what therapy is "supposed" to feel like, and whether digital tools can take its place. This conversation offers practical insights, cultural reflections, and gentle reassurance that while AI can feel supportive, it is not therapy - and finding the right human therapist who understands your cultural background makes all the difference.  

🛠️ Resources & Links: 

🔗 Find culturally competent and real-life human mental health practitioners via the Asian mental health practitioner list

🔗 Learn about Medicare mental health care plans and how to access therapy in Australia here (scroll to the bottom of the page)

🔗 Related episode: Episode 28: Why Therapeutic Rapport Matters More Than You Think

🙌 Connect with Shapes and Sounds 

Instagram: @justshapesandsounds

LinkedIn: Shapes and Sounds 

Website: https://justshapesandsounds.com  

💬 If you found this episode helpful, please subscribe, share, and leave us a review so other Asian Australians can find honest conversations about navigating mental health support in Australia. 💛

~

Transcript

Asami: Hi, Marcus. 

Marcus: Hello Asami. 

Asami: What do you actually do when you're in therapy and how do you know if once you're there, if your therapist is actually a good fit for you? I think that's a question that many of us have. So we're gonna spend a bit of time today talking about that. But that's, that's hard question, right? Like what is a good fits? So let's start from the opposite end. Tell me of some really bad experiences that you've had. They don't have to be really bad. I'm just being dramatic. But bad experiences in therapy that you had. And doing this will help us to narrow towards like what is a good experience. 

Marcus: Well, I don't think I've necessarily had anything that was bad. Like, I guess I've only had situations where it didn't feel helpful. 

Asami: Oh yeah? I mean... 

Marcus: Okay, so it's not bad, we're just being dramatic. It's just a bit like, why am I here kind of thing. It's like, this isn't really going anywhere. 

Asami: Yeah, right. 

Marcus: Yeah. 

Asami: Can you tell me about that, like, what do you mean? 

Marcus: Um, well, I'm talking about like my uni sort of counseling experience, but I guess because it is meant to be short term and I don't think the thing I was talking to my therapist about is a short term thing. So I guess like from the sort of outset, like it just wasn't the right setting. 

Asami: Yeah. 

Marcus: For me. I guess the counselors at uni are more trained to like do like short-term like, oh I'm so stressed about my exam kind of thing and they can help you with that kind of thing. So I wouldn't say it's like the therapist's fault. It's more like the system's fault 

Asami: How did you know in the room that you're like, oh. 

Marcus: One more here. He kept saying, like, let's try this therapy. Let's try IFS. Let's TRY IFS, IFS is internal family systems for anyone who's listening, and that's just a kind of therapy. And then we never really got there because every session I would just bring something up and then he was just really invested in my story. And it was like, he wasn't like, okay, I've heard enough. Let's work on this thing you want to know that's been affecting you this week. Tell me more, tell me more. It's just like more questions about the situation. And like some questions were helpful. Like they weren't all like tell me what, tell more. They were like, oh, like you reacted in this way when you were telling me about this. Like tell me. Tell me. Tell me, tell you more. You know what I mean? Like they were all just like, oh my God, I want to know, I wanna know kind of thing. But like

Asami: And like no doing. 

Marcus: Yeah, it was just me talking for five sessions or how many sessions I went. But every time he was like, okay, let's come up with a plan, and we'll do IFS. But you never got to making that plan. We never got IFS, and then, yeah, I left before it all happened, so. 

Asami: That's so weird, actually. 

Marcus: But I don't know, I guess I don't really know the uni counseling system. Maybe that's just the way they work and they kind of just like, I don't know, tease you a little bit. Like they get to the succession and they're like, oh, so we were talking about IFS and then we can now refer you onto an IFS therapist. I don 't know. 

Asami: Oh, I don't know. I don't know how it works either. 

Marcus: Yeah, I don't think that's how it works, but I'm just like, that's just my hypothesis. Yeah, experience. Yeah. 

Asami: My experience is also with the uni counseling service. 

Marcus: Okay. 

Asami: So no, like let's not be mean to them. Yeah, we're not like saying you. These are specific experiences that you and I have had. It's funny that it's common. 

Marcus: It's just two people. 

Asami: Two people in the universe. I don't know why that's funny. Anyway, let me tell you about my experience. So you mentioned, okay, maybe I just have to illustrate this for you so you really get the picture of this not ideal therapy situation. So you know, like the uni, I don't know if we went to the same building. There's like a building next to a park. And so I think the practitioners share rooms. I don't think like one person has their own therapy room and they stay there. I think they're moving around, right? 

Marcus: No, I think mine had separate rooms. 

Asami: Really? Okay, so maybe it was, but I walked into the room and it was like really messy. It was like dirty, right? Like actually dirty. Like there was like a yoga mat, like roughly rolled up and like thrown in the corner. I was like, okay, that's weird. And his bag was like an old, an old leather bag, but not in like a nice vintage way. 

Marcus: Yeah, it was like a... 

Asami: An old leather bag and it's all like scratched and crumpled and like throw it in the corner and it was like a bit open. And then there was like on the bookshelf, it was all empty. So that's why I thought it was a shared room. 

Speaker 3: Okay. 

Asami: Except for like scrunched up paper. 

Speaker 3: Oh. 

Asami: I'm pretty sure they were like dirty tissues, really gross. So that was, that was visually what I saw. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Asami: I think I only had one session or no, I think had two sessions, but it was in between like the first and second year of master's, so in between that summer break and then I was like, I don't know if I'm doing the right course. I don't know what I'm doing here. I was so incredibly anxious. Like what have I done? Yeah. And then. 

Speaker 4: Okay, I'm scared. 

Asami: And then he said to me, I know that students like you get so worked up about your grades and you get worked up so much about marks and it's really important to really just relax. 

Marcus: And... 

Asami: Yeah, essentially just calm down, don't make such a big deal, right? 

Marcus: Mm-hmm. 

Asami: I was like, oh, that's interesting. 

Marcus: Mm-hmm 

Asami: So he was, I think he was implying like the Asians. 

Marcus: You're doing too much. 

Asami: And you know how it's like, oh, you're so concerned about your grades. Yeah. As in, like, all the Asians who only care about the grades. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Asami: But I was there. I was like so anxious because someone in my family had died. And so I was, like, like existentially. 

Marcus: He was just like projecting. 

Asami: Made it up. I was like, did I say I was stressed about my grades? I was like, maybe I did. And I was maybe, is that what I care about? 

Marcus: You're not doing well, you just smiled. Yeah, that's horrible. 

Asami: Yeah, I was questioning whether I was in the right place because someone had died. So then you're questioning your life. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Asami: How crazy is that? So I'll never forget that dirty office. 

Asami: That's such a red flag for me... The last therapy thing I did was all online telehealth, but if I was doing in person, I would look at the room and I would assess. 

Speaker 4: Oh yeah. 

Asami: Oh, does it look nice? Yeah. Does it smell nice? Yeah. Is everything clean? Yeah. And I think this person spoke a lot about mindfulness. I was like, yeah, mindfulness, blah, blah blah, whatever. And so like, was he like just rolling around on the floor doing a bit of yoga stretching? 

Marcus: Oh my god, that's so weird. 

Asami: That was weird. 

MX in - Look Look

Asami: Yeah. I still remember that, that was like 10 years ago. 

Marcus: No, because I don't know, I feel like you would never go into a therapy room expecting to see that. Like dirty? Yeah, I felt like if I saw that it would stick with me forever. 

Asami: It was quite shocking. 

Marcus: Yeah, definitely. 

Asami: They're like the bad examples, right?

MX out

Asami: If you are with a therapist and then you've done all your thinking and reflecting and trying to be honest with yourself, but you have assessed, this is not a good fit. How do you break up with your therapist? 

Marcus: How do I break up with my therapist? 

Asami: Yeah, let's just say like, how do you do it? 

Marcus: Well, the uni one I just kind of left, so. I don't think I have an experience of how I told them that I was gonna leave. But yeah, do you? 

Asami: I don't think so either. I think there are some opportunistic times that come up. Um, one therapist I wasn't really keen on and at the six session mark, that's when you actually have to go back to your GP and then they, what, like free up your last four Medicare rebated sessions. So you actually had to go to your GB at that point. And then I was like, oh, that was too much. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Asami: I don't want to put in that effort, so then I just never went back. 

Marcus: Yeah, but did you tell the therapist? Oh, no. So that's kind of ghosting. Because I did consider doing that and I was like, no, I think I'll go back. But yeah. 

Asami: Yeah, I've only had one therapist kind of follow up. 

Marcus: Okay, and then you have to like tell them. 

Asami: Yeah, like, yeah, it's close. 

Marcus: Oh, okay, yeah. 

Asami: But it was kind of like, she was just like, Oh, I'm just checking in. Like, are you wrapping up? You know, I need to tell your GP. 

Speaker 4: Ah, yeah. 

Asami: You know, so actually she was probably the only one that did her job properly. 

Speaker 4: Yeah 

Asami: Cause the other ones that I disengaged from, I've never had like a, Hey, I'm just reaching out because I need to either close your file or we can keep it open. I need your GP. No. Interesting. 

Marcus: Yeah, and I guess it's hard like if it's like you're at the end of your sixth session and then they're like Oh, we'll kind of like see how we go from here Like it's kind of hard to tell them in person like, uh, actually, I don't know if i'll continue 

Speaker 3: Yeah. 

Marcus: So, yeah, I don't know how you would make out with your therapist. 

Asami: And I don't think it's a breakup, anyway. At the end of the day, they're a service provider. It's not like a friend that you have to break up with. 

Marcus: And like they know people come and go and people get busy and living, cause of living crisis, like, you know, like... Yeah. I don't think, okay, I think, I don't think a therapist should feel bad that you don't go back to them if that's what any, if that what your worry is. 

Asami: Oh, yeah, yeah. And people have actively said they don't mind. It's like, I want you to go and find another therapist. I'll write you a referral letter. 

Marcus: Yeah. 

Asami: All these things, so it's fine. 

Marcus: I think it's fine. That's the end of the story for anyone listening. 

Asami: Okay, yes, you can go. 

Marcus: Them. Yeah. No. Yes. 

Asami: That's just two people again, two unique individuals. Okay. What about your mental health care plan though? Yeah. Like I'm very bad at anything, logistics, anything paperwork. 

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

Asami: If someone wants to switch psychologists, like your ornamental health care plan, it's got the name of your old therapist and you want to switch. How does that, how would you do that? 

Marcus: So I think you can, you can say like you're in like your fifth session and you're like next session I need to see someone else. You can. I think just need to go back to your GP and get a referral for the new person, but then it's like you just keep going on like if that was your fifth session with the old therapist, then the next one will be your sixth one with the new one. 

Asami: Okay. Yeah. 

Marcus: Yeah, like it doesn't like restart your 10, but it's like the plan is valid You just get 10 sessions with anyone throughout the year. But then if you were to change you just have to get a new referral 

Asami: And then you have to go back to the GP and give them the name of the new person you want to go to, and then they have to swap it over, write them a letter. Yep. Okay. Yeah. It's a bit tedious. 

Marcus: Yeah, but I don't know if you would have to do intake, all the intake stuff again, probably like you might have to do like all the questionnaires and 

Asami: Like, with the GP. 

Marcus: Maybe. 

Asami: Hmm, I'm not sure actually like if you would have to book in for that 45 minute GP 

Marcus: Mental health concept? Well, I guess maybe. I don't know. But yeah, if you want to change, you can. 

Asami: And also everyone, what we're talking about here are psychologists who are Medicare rebated, but other professions like counselors, psychotherapists, they are not Medicare rebated it, I should say. So then you don't have to involve your GP in any of this. 

MX in - The Featherwinged Beetle

You just go to the counselor and usually the out of pocket fee as in how much you end up paying often is kind of similar. Between a psychologist and you've got the Medicare to top it up and a counselor without any Medicare rebate, the out of pocket is actually quite similar, I would say. So then if you're, you don't need to worry about the GP or anything, if you just want to go to a counselor and maybe that's faster for some people too, right? 

MX out

I think something that I've heard a lot about the frustrations that people have with therapy is like how clunky it is. You know, so many steps of the process are clunky as in it's hard to find someone. Then you have to like try and book in a referral, mental health care plan. A lot of people don't have online booking systems. You know? Sometimes you have. Wait a long time. Then you email them or like call if that's worse. So it's like this whole clunky experience and it's slow, especially when now we're so used to fast things. So then I think people are starting to turn to AI to chat about things. It's like number two of the most, I think it's actually number one of like what people use chat GPt for or AI for, therapy and companionship. And then the next one is finding your purpose. I was like, wow, I feel like that's more concerning. 

Asami: But anyway, if we go back to therapy,  What do you think about AI use for therapy, especially in this context of therapeutic rapport, like building a trusting relationship? 

Marcus: I guess it's like quite nuanced. Yeah, okay. I guess kind of tricky to give a like all encompassing answer. Is it good or bad? Yeah, but I guess like there are some good aspects. I'll start with the good things. I think obviously because AI is like just kind of pulling information, pulling sort of like language patterns off the internet. Like I guess if you were to sort of like message it and be like, I'm feeling this way, this way this way. Like it can kind of pull like information online and be like, oh, like, maybe you're experiencing this. Maybe you're experiencing this because it can kind of like search the internet with your symptoms. 

Asami: Like Google said, yeah, everything. Yeah. Yeah 

Marcus: Yeah. So I guess in that sense, it's like kind of like psychoeducation, like it's giving people some more language to like describe how they're feeling, or like they might be like, oh, like this thing that I'm experiencing is depression. 

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

Marcus: Then I might need to then go and see a therapist for this kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah, and I think it can also help recommend you to see services that I have not tried. I think can, right? I think so, right. Like it would be like go to Lifeline or something. I don't know. I think, I think. Don't quote me on this. 

Asami: But I'm not sure if it's doing that because it knows who I am. Do you know what I mean? Like, you know how your chat GPT gets to know you. And then if I've put in resources like that into chat GPTs, maybe it's just spitting it back at me. I don't know. 

Speaker 4: That, yeah, actually, I don't know. You would hope so, right? Yeah. 

Asami: And that those links are like relevant to your country, relevant to age group. 

Marcus: True. 

Asami: I don't know. 

Marcus: I don't know. But yeah, I think that's all the good stuff for AI I think. 

Speaker 5: Speed. 

Marcus: Yeah. 

Speaker 5: Bad things? 

Marcus: Bad things, well, obvious one is it's a machine. So it can kind of like offer you like emotional support. It can be like, yeah, like this is a hard time you're going through, blah, blah. But I guess one thing to remember is like, it is at the end of the day pulling that off the internet. So it's not really processing what you're saying. It's just saying, it's just, I don't know how AI has worked, but like I'm assuming that it's like. You're putting this statement into the chat box and it will look through the internet of like this kind of language pattern on like the letters. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. 

Marcus: And then it will look for what's the corresponding response. So then it might be saying stuff like, oh, this is a really hard time, but then this might be pulled off from, I don't know, a red space website where it's like, this is how you support your friend. And then they just copy paste, but I don't know, maybe that's not how AI works, but that's how I think it works. Yeah, yeah. So it's not real. Yeah, it's just kind of mimicking what's out there on the internet already. 

Asami: Mm-hmm. Interesting, huh? I've even heard some stuff, I don't know if it's real, about psychosis and... 

Marcus: Oh, oh my god. Yeah, I have yep. Okay. Can you tell me? 

Asami: Okay, can you tell me about that article? 

Marcus: Some stuff like obviously I think this is still quite new and like people will need to research more about like how this all happens and stuff. One sort of danger with using AI is that it can leave room for like psychosis or like psychotic thinking. Like it might trigger delusions you have, especially with the stuff where it's kind of constantly reaffirming you and just kind of, constantly supporting what you say. Like, I guess you can kind of... 

Asami: Oh, like, yes, that sounds hard, yes. Yeah, and then you can kind of... 

Marcus: Fall into a trap where it's like enabling you to keep having these thoughts kind of thing. But there's like other kinds of psychosis as well. Like, for example, someone might think that the AI that they're talking to is run by foreign intelligence organizations, because obviously it's, like, I don't know how many people really know how AI works, so then it's who is really on the other side of the screen, you know? So like, That can obviously trigger a lot of paranoia, like where is this information going? Who am I actually talking to? 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Marcus: And then also that people might think that AI is sending them a personal message or something of significance through the way they're talking. 

Asami: Yeah, right. Oh, like some kind of secret code or secret message. 

Marcus: Yeah, like they're like saying something and it's all like this is like a message that the AIs want me to know or something like that Yeah, I guess there's just so much ambiguity with AI as in general that it's like I Don't know. Yeah, to me doesn't feel comforting 

Asami: That's true. There are too many unknowns intersecting with people who might have really challenging mental health concerns. And if we don't know enough about how the LLM works, as well as trying to support someone who might symptoms of psychosis as well, or early psychosis, then how do we support them too? 

Marcus: I guess that's kind of essentially what I'm trying to say with the AI as well. Like, there isn't enough governance around AI and it's like, we don't even really know. Well, I don't really know how it works. So I'm sure people know how that works. 

Speaker 5: Do you think little free chat GPT, we don't know yet. We don't know yet. 

Marcus: Yeah, and I'm sure a lot of everyday people don't know as well. So I guess it's good to stay informed of like, what is the AI actually doing and like, where is it actually pulling all of this stuff that it's saying to you from? It also has to do with, I guess, knowing what to ask. Uh-huh. And like... Oh, like the prompt. And like the Bounds of like what the relationship you have with AI is. 

Speaker 5: My friend, Chetty. 

Marcus: Questions that won't be so crazy. Does that make sense? No, no, no. Do you feel like that yet? 

Asami: I think it's a combination of mental health literacy and AI literacy. 

Marcus: Mm-hmm. 

Asami: I know within me, all right, this is out of control. I need to seek help and AI literacy of like, it's telling me this because I've asked a prompt in a particular way. 

MX in - River Running

So then, yeah, you're right. It's like, I know how to prompt it. I know what it's doing. 

Speaker 4: Ask and 

Asami: and I know where that answer's coming from. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Asami: So the answer in everything is literacy is important. It's a privilege for literacy, right? AI literacy, mental health literacy.

MX out

Asami: I think people say that they're using AI for therapy, but I don't actually think that it is. 

Speaker 3: So I think. 

Asami: Okay. What I mean is I think they're like opening up chat, GBT, they're having a hard day. They're like, Oh God, I feel so stressed at work today. My boss is killing me. Yep. And then the AI is like, oh, have you tried mindfulness? Have you gone for a walk? Yeah. You know, but that's not actually therapy. 

Marcus: Yeah. 

Asami: You know, so complaining to your AI is not therapy. Like maybe people think that having a complaint. 

Marcus: Mm-hmm. 

Asami: Or talking about something hard is me going to therapy. But therapy is so different. 

Marcus: Okay, I get what you mean. Yeah, like that's just a part of what you might do at therapy. 

Asami: Yeah 

Marcus: But it's like therapy is more than you just talking and then a therapist being like, yeah, that's hard 

Asami: Yeah, right? Yep. So maybe we all think we're using it for therapy, but it's not. We're just like... We just want to share our thoughts and our frustrations every now and then, like a little journal. 

Marcus: And you're getting a bit of a therapeutic feeling. It's not therapy. 

Asami: Yeah, would you say so? 

Marcus: Yeah, now that you put it that way, I think I, I agree. Yeah. 

Asami: Do you do that? 

Marcus: Talk to Chachi between now, I don't. 

Asami: Oh man, such a hard... 

Speaker 4: I've never 

Asami: I use it for very like strange work skills. Okay. So like, um, like this is obviously not at shapes and sounds because it's like, I run the organization, I can set the rules. 

Speaker 3: Yep. 

Asami: But for other organizations, like sometimes I don't know how things work in organizations. So I was like, I'm having such a hard time at my work. My contract is ending. I've only got two more weeks to go. Yeah. Like how do I, how do 

Marcus: I put up with that. 

Asami: Yeah. And then it'll give me, it's probably pulling things from all these like HR resources. 

Marcus: Yeah, but I don't think that's therapy though. That's not therapy though, right? Oh, I guess you could go to a therapist for that, like. Yeah. But I wouldn't say that's a therapy, like that's something I would ask like a friend as well. 

Asami: Oh, maybe Chanjibadee's my friend. Yeah. 

Marcus: Yeah, maybe. 

Asami: Maybe it's my companions, I'm like the same as everyone, number one, companionship. 

Marcus: It's like, give me a second opinion. 

Asami: Yeah. 

MX Sting 7

Would you rather bad therapy or chat GPT? 

Marcus: Well, I guess it depends, again, if you're looking for very, very short term emotional support, like something happened at uni and I need someone to talk to you right now. First of all, there's the Lifeline chat, online chat, so you could reach out to that. 

Asami: And that's a real human on the other end. 

Marcus: That is a real human and it's on online. You don't have to speak on the phone, nothing online. So there is that option. But if you still want to use chat GBT, I would say. Maybe OK in the really, really short term sense, like if you just want some kind of like emotional support, like immediately. 

Asami: Okay. 

Marcus: But long-term, no. Definitely not chat GBT. And I would- 

Asami: What do you mean long term, like? 

Marcus: I guess if you really want some kind of change or some kind long-term I don't know learning a coping skill or like learning something that you can I don't t know something that can like improve your mental health long-terms then chat gbt will definitely not be able to give you that um then I would maybe prefer the not so good fit therapist who is still okay at the job who's still a human yeah 

Asami: Yeah, but what if ChatGPG remembers everything? 

Marcus: I don't know.. 

Asami: Shall we try and compare the human therapist with the ChatGPT answer?

Marcus: Yep, too much hatchery research. 

MX break - The Featherwing Beetle

Asami: Okay. If you're listening, Marcus is actually typing into chat GPT. 

Marcus: I'll put in the prompt, I'll read it to you and then you give me your answer. And then I'll enter and then get the ChatGVT answer. But hopefully ChatGvT is not listening to your answers. And then she'll like spit out what you say. OK, what should I say? I am a stressed out psychology honest student, very worried and anxious about my marks and my future. I don't know what I want to do anymore and... 

Asami: It's so deep, it's getting really personal. 

Marcus: I feel like life has no meaning. 

Asami: Oh, no. Okay. What I would say in that, I would one, okay, thank you, Marcus, for telling me. You know, I can hear there's a lot going on for you, but I want to ask you, like, what's it like now? Like, now that you've told me, what does it feel like for you to tell me that now? 

Marcus: We'll leave it at that and we'll see what the chat GC says. 

Asami: HNNNGH 

Marcus: Okay, so I'm going to click enter. Oh my god, it's making me sign in. I'm gonna do Gemini instead, because that one's logged in. 

Asami: We'll go to Gemini. 

Marcus: Okay, so this is a very, very long answer. 

Asami: Wow, okay. 

Marcus: Okay, so I'll just give the gist. So it's saying, hey there, it sounds like you're going through a really tough time right now. Okay, that matches. The pressure of an honest student can feel immense and it's completely understandable that you're feeling stressed and anxious about your marks. Many students in your position feel the same way and it like breaks down a lot. It's like, how can you deal with the stress? And it's like take small manageable steps, talk to someone, prioritize your wellbeing. And then it's great that you're thinking about your future, but let's try not to let it consume your present. And it's saying like you have options, post-grad isn't the only path, blah, blah whatever. Right now, the most important thing is to be kind to yourself. You're doing a tough degree and it's natural to feel overwhelmed. Don't be afraid to lean on your support network and the resources available to you. Taking one step at a time, focusing on what you can control and giving yourself a break will make a world of difference. And then it says, what's the one thing on your mind right now that feels most urgent to deal with? Maybe we can start there. 

Asami: UGH! 

Marcus: So... 

Asami: Okay, okay, okay. Tell me your feelings. My feelings. Yeah. When you read that, you're like, yeah, tell me. 

Marcus: Okay, well, obviously, when I read this, this is like, just like Google, like, I could have Google like, how to deal with uni stress. So now that the advice feels personalized. 

Asami: Okay. You know. 

Marcus: Doing too much, so... 

Asami: It's a lot, isn't it? 

Marcus: Yeah, like, I wouldn't read all of that if I was stressed. Like, I want to be like, hmm, yeah, I can take small, manageable steps and talk to someone, you know? 

Asami: You're like, hmm, actually that's why I'm talking to you. 

Marcus: Yeah, like, give me something quick and... 

Asami: Interesting. Do you know what else I also think is not good about that? It's like it reiterates exactly what you're thinking, right? So it's like, it's really valid to feel really stressed about your exams and you're in a high pressure course. But the choice that I used was like, sounds like there's going on. It's very neutral. You know, it's not like, wow, oh my God, Marcus, that's so tough. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Asami: Cause that's like feeding into more intensity and more emotionality. Cause I keep it neutral. And then I haven't, I literally gave you nothing. And I just want to know what it's like for you to tell me because that helps you. 

Marcus: Focusing on the present moment. 

Asami: Exactly. 

Marcus: Like I'm not like gonna think about more of the stress, you know? And in here, it's like, oh, like post-grad is not the only option. Like, you don't have to do a PhD. But then I feel like everyone wants to do that though. So that's not really like, oh, I just won't put myself through the stress. Like, I don't know. 

MX in

I guess what we're trying to say is the chat GBT or the Gemini answer didn't have nuancerr. And it was just pulling whatever it could off the internet. 

Asami: But it's also good to try. 

Marcus: Yeah, good to know what I can do and what I cannot do. 

MX out

Asami: We've gone on a wild tangent with Gemini in the middle of it all, but how do you know when your therapist is a good fit? 

Marcus: Well, I guess it's quite nice when they can ask you like, oh, how was this thing you were mentioning last time as well? Like that's like, oh, like you actually remember, like that's, I think a therapist should do that. Like, whereas I've heard other instances where it's like people go in and they just talk about it. And that every time they kind of talk about the same thing and then nothing really eventuates out of it, but. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. 

Marcus: That's not a thing. So yeah, I'll kind of talk and then there'll be a lot of things and then we'll land on a point really, really early on in the session, like five, 10 minutes in. And then that will be the thing we work on. 

Speaker 3: So it's not like we... 

Marcus: So it's not like we just kind of keep like complaining and complaining and then like time ends. 

Asami: But there's like, it kind of has a structure to the session. Yeah. 

Marcus: Yeah, and there's more control. 

Asami: Hmm 

Marcus: I guess. Personally, I think because If I'm just kind of talking to someone, like that I can kind of do with anyone, whereas like with a therapist who can kind have control and like actually do therapeutic work with me, like then I'm more reassured that it's like, oh, like they actually kind of have a good understanding of like what I need. Then in that sense, I'm able to feel more comfortable. 

Asami: Yeah, right. 

Marcus: And then, yeah, so I guess. 

Asami: I think a lot of people think about therapy as you go in, people just keep asking you questions and then like, and then what happened? Tell me more, tell me more. Yeah, and how do you feel? How do you? Yeah, how do feel? What about your parents? You know, what about your childhood? But actually, containment is really important and containment is this idea of like, you don't. Keep opening things up. You don't keep opening up boxes, but in fact you actually close a lot of things too so that people are not like flooding, like things aren't pouring out, but actually you're helping to kind of organize and hold spaces so you're not just kind of bleeding out everywhere, right? I think that's a really important part, especially in trauma work. Like if you are in trauma and you're just asking, how do you feel, how do feel, that's like really dangerous. 

Speaker 4: Dangerous. Yeah. 

Asami: Actually, it's more like you spend more time being like... 

Speaker 4: Yep. Today, this is the feeling. Let's wrap this one up. 

Asami: I think similar to you, like, good experiences I've had, containment is key. I think like in early sessions, it's really easy to go in and blurt everything out. And that's so natural, right? We're talking about this before, but it's so natural for your session one to just be an absolute word vomit of everything that's gone wrong in your life. Yep. But then from there, if the therapist can really help you to just kind of Okay, pack that one up, pack it up, let's start here. It's just a little box over here, let start working here. And people that pace really well. I think people, you can't go too slow, you can go too fast, you gotta just meet the person where they're at, but slow it down a smidge. I think everyone listens and nods and looks and all that kind of stuff. I think that's a given. If your therapist is not doing that, then that's not good. For me, it's definitely like, do not sink into my madness. 

Speaker 4: Yeah 

Asami: you do a really good job and be strong. And like, don't worry that I'm a therapist as well. I've had therapists who find it hard to work with another therapist because they feel very. 

Marcus: Oh... 

Asami: Or like, nervous about it? 

Marcus: Okay. 

Asami: Yeah. 

Marcus: Like as in like, as in, what do you mean? 

Asami: I think because they know that you know what they're doing, so they're like, that's weird. 

Speaker 4: Hmm 

Asami: I, Oh, another thing I like is when people just stick to their lane, meaning I don't want a therapist to tell me anything about yoga or exercise or running. It's like. 

Speaker 4: Uh, okay. Listen. 

Asami: Listen, I've got support for that. I don't need any support for these other things. But maybe they're all linked, like diet and nutrition and whatever. And I would... Or like anything to do with like work scheduling or anything like organizing my life-wise. I have no interest. I just want to focus on the therapy. Yep, yep. So when people stay in LA. 

Marcus: Okay, I never thought about that, but I think that makes sense. 

Asami: It makes sense, right? You don't need any kind of other support. 

Speaker 4: Yeah, no. 

Asami: Even though it's all connected. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Asami: How do you know then that the therapy is working? 

Marcus: The simplest way to put it is that you should just feel better. The way I've noticed that the therapy is working is the relationships I have in my life are better, and especially like relationships with family. It might be like, oh, like this thing that my dad does, like it used to frustrate me, but actually now I can really contain my emotions and it won't really annoy me as much anymore. Yeah, nice. Listen and then... Actually everything is fine, you know? So I think it's those little moments of realizing like, oh, actually I'm able to handle this situation better. Or I feel more in control in this situation. There is some kind of little change. 

Asami: But it has a profound impact. 

Marcus: Yeah, I guess so. 

Asami: And have you ever found, this is the case for me, but have you found that it's like, one day you realize you're no longer annoyed by the thing? Yeah. Or like, an example for me is like, one day I just realized I was like laughing. Like this is in a really dark time in my life, obviously. 

Speaker 4: I'm happy. 

Asami: You're like, wow, like I literally have not heard myself laugh for a long time. And then you're like oh, it must be working. 

Marcus: Yeah. Like I think the therapy, I think sometimes the change is like, it just kind of happens. Like it's not like you finish a session and then that night you feel better. It's just like something happens, I don't know, when you're sleeping, like you're still processing it or whatever. Yeah. And then one day it will just kind of happen and you realize like, oh, like something must have changed. Like something in my brain must have changed and then now I'm fine kind of thing. 

Asami: Yeah. 

Marcus: I don't know. 

Asami: So if you're in therapy, it's like, don't forget that the benefit might come after. Probably you might actually feel worse after a specific session because you feel really open and vulnerable. 

Marcus: Yeah, like tired, like so tired, yeah. 

Asami: Yeah, that's so good to highlight, like people feel tired after going to a therapy session. Yeah, no, it's so tiring. Right? Yep. So then you don't feel great then, but that doesn't mean it's not working. Yeah. But then, what? Three weeks down the track? Six weeks down? 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Asami: You might be like. 

Speaker 4: It's I'm a new person. 

MX sting 4

Asami: Everyone, if you are in the process of looking for a therapist, if you have thought about maybe having a therapist of an Asian cultural identity might be helpful. Maybe there are some interesting themes that you're working through that relate to your culture and your identity, then please know that we have a practitioner list of over 100 Asian mental health practitioners located all over Australia, except for a few states, which is shared. If you're in Tasmania, please contact us. I don't know why they're are none in tazzy, okay? 

Marcus: Yeah, I think there's another state too, but I can't remember which one. 

Asami: You know the territory? 

Marcus: Smithy represents more than 21st, thank you. No, there's one more then. But wait, how many states do we have? Seven states, seven states and territories, right? Yeah, and we have five states on our... 

Asami: Okay, so it must be NT. 

Marcus: In Tasmania then, yeah. 

Asami: There is an Asian population in NT though. Yeah, there is, there. We need to try harder. If you're in Darwin and other parts of Northern Territory, please reach out. We would love to hear from you and you will provide so much support to the people living there who are probably going to email us saying, why don't you have any therapists in Darwin? I don't know. Well, you can find us on Instagram and LinkedIn at just shapes and sounds. If you're on those... Um, social media platforms, we always link to our practitioner list and you'll see interviews with practitioners too. Please subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast app because it really helps other people find us. It's just the way the world works, isn't it? Please download this episode for offline listening. I think it'll be funny if you listen back in even six months time and listen to AI chat. 

Marcus: Definitely. 

Asami: Who knows how it will age. And most importantly, please share this episode with your friends because word of mouth really helps to de-stigmatize mental health within Asian communities. Marcus, it's been a pleasure. 

Marcus: Yes, this was fun. 

Keywords: AI mental health tools, therapy red flags, Melbourne psychologist, Asian Australian therapy, Medicare mental health plan, switching therapists, culturally competent counselling, therapeutic rapport, digital mental health, therapy effectiveness